I did not suppose we would be doing one other episode a few mass taking pictures so quickly. However right here we’re.
Mayor John Cooper
00:00:06
As a neighborhood.
That is from a vigil in Nashville.
Mayor John Cooper
00:00:10
Thanks to our artists for sharing the present of music. You’re the custodians of that particular present.
I have been to this place, and I do not imply some sort of memorial after a mass taking pictures, however Nashville particularly. I lived there for a couple of years overlaying the South, and it is not an enormous metropolis. It is dominant industries of music and publishing could make it really feel even smaller, like everybody is aware of everybody. So when First Woman Jill Biden visited town to attend a vigil for the taking pictures victims of the Covenant Faculty, it was an absolute given {that a} nation music artist can be there.
Will the circle be unbroken?
By and by, Lord, by and by.
That is Ketch Secor, founding member of the Grammy Award profitable band Previous Crow Drugs Present. I did not even get an introduction on the vigil, however that is as a result of everybody within the crowd already is aware of who he’s, not only a well-known musician, however a member of their neighborhood and a mum or dad of two college aged youngsters. The truth is, the college his youngsters attend in East Nashville, he co-founded it in 2016. It is known as the Episcopal Faculty of Nashville.
So I am sporting two completely different hats right here when a college taking pictures occurs in our city. It is each as a mum or dad and it is as any person who’s on the opposite aspect of the decide up line as effectively. When a rustic singer will get off the highway, likelihood is at 8:00 within the morning on Monday after the large weekend, that man or gal is in line dropping their child off at a college in Nashville, Tennessee. In the case of your property, it is completely different.
And the sky lowered within the sky.
Ketch Secor not too long ago wrote an op ed for The New York Occasions that caught our consideration. It was titled Nation Music Can Lead America Out of its Obsession with Weapons. In it, he requires nation musicians to talk candidly to their audiences about gun tradition. I wished to have him on the present to speak about that op ed, like, can nation music actually assist lead the U.S. out of a gun debate? And what are the stakes for a musician within the style if they really take a stand? And what’s it wish to dwell on the middle of all of it as a mum or dad, educator and musician in Nashville, Tennessee? That is the task. I am Audie Cornish.
The taking pictures on the Covenant Faculty sort of prompted you to write down an op ed for The New York Occasions. However can you’re taking me again to that day a bit of bit? The place have been you once you heard it occurring?
Certain it was on Monday, two weeks in the past, and it was at 10:13 within the morning. I acquired a textual content message from our college lawyer saying, I am so sorry, and I had no concept what was occurring. And prayer hand emoji is fascinating.
So getting an emoji like that or getting the compulsory “are you okay” that all of us begin to ship one another now when there is a taking pictures, particularly at a college, you are saying it it hits you in a spot of what? Panic. Worry. What? What do you are feeling?
It is. It is all of the above. It is. It is your youngsters. It is another person’s youngsters. You recognize, the pinnacle of college was murdered. The connections between our college are very current, and it is as a neighborhood member in Nashville, this stunning realization. Oh, this factor that occurs in different cities has come to our city. And it is come not simply to our city, however to our kids, to our the place that’s most sacred.
And even to your nook of that world, Proper? Prefer it did not occur at a public college. It did not occur at an enormous college. It occurred at basically a small Christian major college. Proper. Which is what you what you based one, proper? It had connections.
Yeah. And our colleges are very completely different in that regard and serve completely different populations. Nevertheless, it you realize, we’re all the identical. We’re all each college, public, personal, constitution, each stripe is within the enterprise of believing that youngsters are our future and should be stewarded and beloved on and guided. And, you realize, that is an actual elemental precept for me.
Can I ask, how outdated are your youngsters and do they go to the college you based?
Yeah, they do. And so they’re 9 and 11.
So did the college you based this Episcopal college, did it go into lockdown? Type of what what did you you all need to do consequently?
No, the faculties adjoining to Covenant did, however the others in Nashville didn’t. And so the factor I feel that was so unhappy that first day was the message that went out saying your youngsters haven’t but been notified. The employees is aware of, the academics know, everyone is aware of, all of the dad and mom know, everyone is aware of however the youngsters. And we will discuss it tomorrow. However we wished to provide the likelihood to speak about it first. So when you can think about a decide up line, anyone who’s who’s been by way of a college taking pictures of their neighborhood is aware of, you realize, the decide up line that first day is filled with tears.
Proper. And for individuals who aren’t accustomed to how huge ups and drop offs work as of late in colleges, there’s a line proper, the place like there are sort of they’re chaperoning your child the actually to the curb and also you decide them up. There’s not similar to wandering out of the constructing the place I feel when you have been a child within the nineties is what you grew up with. Yeah, it is hand handy move off.
That is proper, Audie. You should have youngsters.
Nicely, the juxtaposition of youngsters filled with vibrant pleasure and life and oldsters filled with grief and disappointment coming collectively. This assembly to me was very highly effective.
That means you are standing on the curb ready to get your child. However each mum or dad’s face is simply drawn.
And each mum or dad is each trainer and simply, you realize, holding again tears as is each trainer. However each baby continues to really feel very secure. And but everyone knows as dad and mom that no baby is secure any longer as a result of this tragedy is in our yard. It is come to Nashville, it is come to us, to our youngsters.
I suppose I wish to begin perhaps with Wagon Wheel, as a result of if individuals go to look you up, that could be the primary tune they find out about. And also you even write about it on this op ed. Inform me a bit of bit about the place you have been in your profession once you wrote this.
Certain. Nicely, Wagon Wheel is my most profitable tune.
Headed down South to the Land of the Pines. I am coming my method to North Carolina, staring up.
And it is a collaboration with Bob Dylan. I wrote it once I was about 17, going to high school up in New England in a prep college known as Exeter, and I used to be had simply discovered to play the banjo up there.
So rock me mama like a wagon wheel. Rock me mama, any method you are feeling. Hey mama rock me
You discuss the concept that your finest identified tune, Wagon Wheel, is usually blasting out of a truck, so to talk, that has an NRA sticker. And also you point out this particularly, and I need you to speak about why.
Once you make the sort of music that I make with a fiddle and a banjo and concord singing and a selected fashion of songwriting, you are participating in a neighborhood that could be completely different than your personal form of background, and it is not. Nicely, there is a prepare going by proper now. That is form of proof..
I keep in mind the prepare. Yeah.
The trains are at all times going by in Nashville.
Simply acquired to maintain it occurring the podcast. It will add a bit of little bit of coloration and speaks to what I am speaking about. You recognize, the trains are going by. The vehicles have NRA stickers. You recognize, once I was a child, there have been Accomplice flags in every single place. That is The South, y’all. It is completely different than the opposite components of the nation now, for higher or for worse. However it’s what it’s.
And once you’re round Nashville and you’ve got political conversations, wherever the individual falls on the spectrum, inevitably somebody makes use of that phrase, Nicely, that is The South.
Like, that is speculated to cowl quite a lot of issues.
Yeah. And whether or not it is speculated to be that method or, you realize, I feel we’re in a state of appreciable progress down south, however the vestiges stay, and so they’re essential to speak about on this regard, as a result of one of many vestiges is gun tradition, and it is largely thought of just like the insurgent flag up to now, simply one thing that exists right here. Take care of it, y’all. When actually, we now have at all times had the ability to drop the insurgent flag. There’s one vestige that has been challenged successfully.
And effected change in a method, or at the very least elevate the sort of societal stakes participating in sure language.
Completely. And so I see the change in gun tradition is rather like one other step in direction of The South’s evolution.
To my thoughts, nation, Americana, these genres so carefully align with their audiences. It’s extremely very like hip-hop, like individuals in hip-hop discuss concerning the tradition and their ties to the music, and the music ties to fairly actually the id of the individuals listening. And nation feels very a lot the identical method. However consequently, it has quite a lot of like guidelines. You recognize, there is a couple traces you they individuals do not such as you to step out of. Are you able to discuss how that performs out in fashionable nation?
Certain. Nicely, in the present day’s nation singer won’t come from The South and is school educated. So that they are in has already modified the stereotype of who sings nation music. You recognize, it is it is not coal miners anymore. The coal miner’s daughter like all of us love Loretta, however that is not who’s on primary proper now. In order that a part of it has modified lots. However what hasn’t modified a lot are the attitudes of the viewers.
Which to be clear. The nation music viewers is also wealthier and are resolution makers and our usually managers, there’s been form of like quite a lot of analysis into many people who find themselves within the viewers, and the viewers most likely seems a bit of completely different than individuals count on as effectively.
Nicely, I did not know to enter this, however however I am excited that we’re, Audie, as a result of, you realize, nation music actually particularly, and to make clear, modern nation music on the radio is an actual secure area for us to not discuss political divisiveness and never discuss issues of of substance. However as a substitute we’re all form of studying the Pulp Fiction collectively. And it is it is
Which is why it is in style, proper? I imply, in the course of the pandemic, I heard the expansion of listening to the music or streaming perhaps was up 15%. It was increased than some other style.
Folks welcome that secure area.
Journey story. It is you realize, it is very a lot tales, intergenerational household tales. That is the sort of stuff that goes primary is the tune about grandpa and what man he was and the way if we could possibly be a bit of bit extra like him, then the world can be a greater place. So this form of, you realize, hallmark sort of these beliefs which are tossed round won’t be that practical for in the present day’s actuality of, you realize, I labored I am a part of a world financial system working two jobs. And, you realize, I am hoping my youngsters are going to go get out of state tuition or no matter. And but we nation music actually offers in nostalgia. And that nostalgia is a an essential antidote to all the ache that one can witness within the click on of a mouse.
Proper. So how does gun. Tradition work together with that nostalgia, storytelling, since you’re saying in a method that that is constructed into the music, too.
Johnny Money singing I Shot a Man in Reno to Watch Him Die. Hank Jr Singing about. Yeah, I would wish to spit some seaside nut in that dude’s eye and shoot him with my outdated 45 as a result of a rustic boy can survive. This can be a method to for nation music to retain authority in a altering world. And guns–
However do you hear it within the fashionable music? Are there? You do not have to pick any artist. However do individuals nonetheless discuss that?
No, Audie. And that is the factor. We do not discuss weapons. If we do, it is a tune about I took my boy attempting to find the primary time. It is once more, dealing within the nostalgia. What it is not saying is I’ve acquired an AR-15 in my assortment. However the actuality is that many, many listeners do. And but it is a secure area the place they don’t seem to be confronted by the music to a altering actuality. As an alternative, they’re allowed to say, I taught my baby learn how to, you realize, I imply, once I was a child within the eighties, like I went chook hunt with Dad, I discovered learn how to fireplace a weapon. I discovered learn how to clear a weapon. These items are essential to the ways in which gun tradition is usually a constructive, however the secure area is that we’re not speaking about what it means in in the present day’s America. As an alternative, we’re just about hanging in yesterday’s.
So what’s it like for artists equivalent to your self to lift this concern?
Folks hold saying, thanks for being courageous. And I am like. You recognize who’s courageous is the child that pulled the fireplace alarm, you realize, within the hallway beneath gunfire in our city in a college, a child that was a 3rd grader. Now, that is courageous. All I am doing is simply I am a singer and I will sing concerning the stuff that is actual. I am a author, and I will inform what I see.
I do not wish to learn an excessive amount of into the zoom, however I. Are you getting emotional speaking about that?
Oh, yeah. I imply, I have been I have been crying for 2 weeks, ya’ll, prefer it’s… When this involves your city and so they bury the identical age child as yours. After which after which, like, whereas the graves are nonetheless recent, the information cycle strikes on to Stormy Daniels, and that is the truth. It is like, Good God, the place can we dwell? What can we not care about youngsters in any respect? It is simply over. So that is my method of claiming it is not over and it will not be over till these deaths, these three deaths of American youngsters gunned down within the third grade, till they imply one thing, that is when it’s going to be over.
Extra with Ketch Secor in only a second.
You might be demanding a brand new sort of motion come out of the south. And that it partially be led by people who find themselves cultural figures as effectively, not simply politicians, individuals equivalent to your self. Why do you suppose it might make a distinction?
Nicely, I feel that Nashville stands uniquely poised to steer a response to the college taking pictures epidemic.
However why do you suppose that? Proper? We simply watched the Tennessee State Home expel two members as a result of that they had a protest associated to gun coverage. Expel, not censure, not reprimand. Attempt to kick them out. So what what to your thoughts leads you to suppose that?
Nicely, Nashville, although the state legislature is what it’s, Nashville is a really progressive metropolis. And I am not saying that Tennessee goes to paved the way. I am saying Nashville.
Yeah, however is not that the powerful half? If in all these states and it is not simply Tennessee, you’ve got acquired these blue cities, these little blue dots in a sea of purple, and by purple I imply very conservative, very pro-gun, pro-Second Modification legislatures. This seems like an uphill battle. What you are calling for.
And I do know it is price it. I do not wish to as a result of everyone knows it is price it. However I need I wish to perceive why you suppose nation musicians are in any method uniquely positioned to have this dialog.
Nicely, and I wish to I recognize you difficult this Audie. Very first thing I wish to say is that altering segregation was an uphill battle in Tennessee. And and when Nashville within the early Sixties, within the late Nineteen Fifties stated its first foot ahead, this was the proving floor, different components of the South have been too unsafe. However individuals gathered in Nashville, a metropolis of schools, a metropolis of progressive thought within the South to have interaction in nonviolent civil disobedience. That is the place John Lewis got here. That is the place the Freedom Riders first cease was.
Their trainings, proper, with James Lawson and at Vanderbilt.
All of that coaching at Fisk and Vanderbilt occurred proper right here in Nashville, Tennessee. That exhibits our capacity as a as a neighborhood to exist outdoors of the state. Now, similar to in that point, the state legislator stated, what are you speaking about? That is not going to occur in our state. We solid the deciding vote on on ladies’s suffrage. I imply, Tennessee has been a bellwether place in these two different cases of nice significance. That is the third. That is the a part of the demise knell of the outdated South, which goes to have to alter. You recognize, 50 years from now I feel we will be trying again at these couple of years because the deciding time for a assault weapons ban in the US.
Once more, I wish to carry it to the query about nation music artists, particularly mainstream ones who given what we all know concerning the music, primary, have been socially punished for activism by what we name Music Row, by music radio, by nation music radio specifically, which nonetheless has a really sort of robust grip in a method programmers do, and even latest historical past. Proper. When you consider the Dixie Chicks, and so on., their complete story is a narrative of being ostracized for his or her activism.
You recognize, for a man like me, I am not beholden to too many individuals in any respect, however I am not a mainstream. I am not on the Jumbotron, you realize, I am not on the awards present with the highest ten performers of the 12 months.
Do you want these individuals for the motion you are speaking about?
They’ve a very far attain and the ability to speed up an inevitable motion to alter this for our youngsters. And I am asking them by way of this piece and likewise head to head in my neighborhood, by way of conversations of textual content. You recognize, I’ve reached out to so many singers up to now two weeks.
And what sort of textual content you ship.
Hey, I am simply reaching out to all my Nashville music neighborhood within the wake of the taking pictures and sharing this story that I wrote that got here out in the present day in The Occasions. Should you get a sec, please have a look.
What’s been essentially the most constructive response? What’s been essentially the most irritating one?
Essentially the most irritating one is silence. I say within the op ed piece that I feel silence is complicity. I went into the studio and I and I recorded a brand new tune on the topic. Because the taking pictures, which is barely two weeks in the past there have been so some ways to be engaged with this horrible story, and it is highly effective resolution.
I imply, the explanation why I am asking is as a result of your op ed stated one thing fairly particular, proper? That there are artists who’re drained at being on the sort of mercy of the whims of fearmongers, you stated, and that they are prepared to talk to an impressionable viewers. And since different genres, like we talked about hip hop earlier or pop, they do wade into societal points. They are often confrontational about politics. It is not like there is not a mannequin on the market. So I suppose what would it not take, do you suppose, for individuals in your business? To begin to do one thing related, which is which is, in impact, what you are calling for.
It’s starting and it is, I feel, in its infancy, but it surely’s already began.
And so it is about fanning the flames and constructing an enormous bonfire out of what is already crackling kindling. For instance, we have a profit live performance right here in Nashville that helps Covenant Faculty. And once you take a look at the the roster, who’s on the marquee, it is not the same old Americana people who at all times say, you realize, we stand with youngsters, we arise in opposition to gun violence. As an alternative, it is primary chart toppers. They’re there. They’ve put their hat into the ring.
However is it as a result of it is is it going to be a secure area from politics? If it is a second of a memorial, is that what makes it okay for an enormous artist to be there? Proper. As a result of no person’s going to stand up and say we should always have gun management.
There’s nothing however up right here as a result of we we now have began on the very baseline the place music popping out of Nashville on the radio says nothing about violence in opposition to youngsters in our colleges or about the necessity to rethink the forms of weaponry that’s related to the Second Modification. Kelsea Ballerini talked about it on an award present. These are the sorts of issues that when any person takes one step and the motion can shortly observe it, then the subsequent step is not as onerous to make. And what I am asking for is that subsequent step. You recognize, I’ve gotten quite a lot of suggestions from my viewers. And like I say in an op ed piece, you realize, I see the NRA sticker on the again of lot of vehicles blaring in my tunes. So, you realize, and we’re out on the highway with Hank Jr. this summer season. So, I imply, I am I am used to enjoying to an viewers that’s our nation folks. However I really like my nation folks viewers. And I and I need to have the ability to be actual with them. I can transfer freely in each of the areas that the 2 huge silos within the nation. Like, I’d go to work in a single silo and are available residence and the opposite one. And I am good with that as a result of I really like these individuals.
What’s your message to these artists who’re simply nonetheless very reluctant?
Nation music has an awesome future in these occasions to swing out previous the fences which have corralled it in so tightly. That I consider on this style. And I consider that it has the ability to hold that reality. You recognize, it is very a lot rooted in a gospel custom of of the lamentation, the calling out to the nice spirits. Assist us, Lord. We’re simply your youngsters. We do not know shit. We’re we’re dying down right here. Assist!
Are you able to discuss concerning the tune that you’ve got written out of this second?
New materials? You recognize, typically, similar to I am in a songwriting temper right here, I am in a a second in time with quite a lot of completely different alternatives as a author to have interaction on this, whether or not it is, you realize, writing the proper caption for {a photograph} on Instagram or writing an op ed piece for The New York Occasions or being on this podcast with you, Audie. There’s so some ways to decide on my phrases proper now and attempt to have them be resonant for the ache that we’re feeling in Nashville, Tennessee and across the nation as a result of we’re simply so drained, dad and mom, that our youngsters should not secure of their colleges. What which means for me as a songwriter is that I even have the prospect to write down new music about this and to place my cash the place my mouth is. So I acquired a brand new tune that is popping out known as Louder Than Weapons. That is yeah, I simply recorded it two days in the past.
Give me a way of the tune or lyrics.
Nicely, gosh, I really feel like I should not even introduced it up as a result of it is so…anytime you get a you realize, persons are cagey about their new stuff!
You are coping with a dude that wept by way of the entire songwriting course of. Let me sing it for you.
Ketch Secor is the daddy of two youngsters in Nashville, Tennessee. He is additionally a singer, songwriter and founding member of the band Previous Crow Drugs Present.
Now The Project is a manufacturing of CNN Audio. Our producers are Madeleine Thompson,Jennifer Lai, Lori Galarreta, Carla Javier, and Dan Bloom. Our affiliate producers are Isoke Samuel and Allison Park. Our senior producers are Matt Martinez and Haley Thomas. Dan Dzula is our technical director. Steve Lickteig is our government producer. Particular because of Katie Hinman. I am Audie Cornish and thanks for listening.
Sending that one out to Louisville in the present day.
Ketch, thanks a lot for sharing that with us.
Yeah, we acquired. We acquired to. We acquired to do it, y’all.
I did not suppose we would be doing one other episode a few mass taking pictures so quickly. However right here we’re.
Mayor John Cooper
00:00:06
As a neighborhood.
That is from a vigil in Nashville.
Mayor John Cooper
00:00:10
Thanks to our artists for sharing the present of music. You’re the custodians of that particular present.
I have been to this place, and I do not imply some sort of memorial after a mass taking pictures, however Nashville particularly. I lived there for a couple of years overlaying the South, and it is not an enormous metropolis. It is dominant industries of music and publishing could make it really feel even smaller, like everybody is aware of everybody. So when First Woman Jill Biden visited town to attend a vigil for the taking pictures victims of the Covenant Faculty, it was an absolute given {that a} nation music artist can be there.
Will the circle be unbroken?
By and by, Lord, by and by.
That is Ketch Secor, founding member of the Grammy Award profitable band Previous Crow Drugs Present. I did not even get an introduction on the vigil, however that is as a result of everybody within the crowd already is aware of who he’s, not only a well-known musician, however a member of their neighborhood and a mum or dad of two college aged youngsters. The truth is, the college his youngsters attend in East Nashville, he co-founded it in 2016. It is known as the Episcopal Faculty of Nashville.
So I am sporting two completely different hats right here when a college taking pictures occurs in our city. It is each as a mum or dad and it is as any person who’s on the opposite aspect of the decide up line as effectively. When a rustic singer will get off the highway, likelihood is at 8:00 within the morning on Monday after the large weekend, that man or gal is in line dropping their child off at a college in Nashville, Tennessee. In the case of your property, it is completely different.
And the sky lowered within the sky.
Ketch Secor not too long ago wrote an op ed for The New York Occasions that caught our consideration. It was titled Nation Music Can Lead America Out of its Obsession with Weapons. In it, he requires nation musicians to talk candidly to their audiences about gun tradition. I wished to have him on the present to speak about that op ed, like, can nation music actually assist lead the U.S. out of a gun debate? And what are the stakes for a musician within the style if they really take a stand? And what’s it wish to dwell on the middle of all of it as a mum or dad, educator and musician in Nashville, Tennessee? That is the task. I am Audie Cornish.
The taking pictures on the Covenant Faculty sort of prompted you to write down an op ed for The New York Occasions. However can you’re taking me again to that day a bit of bit? The place have been you once you heard it occurring?
Certain it was on Monday, two weeks in the past, and it was at 10:13 within the morning. I acquired a textual content message from our college lawyer saying, I am so sorry, and I had no concept what was occurring. And prayer hand emoji is fascinating.
So getting an emoji like that or getting the compulsory “are you okay” that all of us begin to ship one another now when there is a taking pictures, particularly at a college, you are saying it it hits you in a spot of what? Panic. Worry. What? What do you are feeling?
It is. It is all of the above. It is. It is your youngsters. It is another person’s youngsters. You recognize, the pinnacle of college was murdered. The connections between our college are very current, and it is as a neighborhood member in Nashville, this stunning realization. Oh, this factor that occurs in different cities has come to our city. And it is come not simply to our city, however to our kids, to our the place that’s most sacred.
And even to your nook of that world, Proper? Prefer it did not occur at a public college. It did not occur at an enormous college. It occurred at basically a small Christian major college. Proper. Which is what you what you based one, proper? It had connections.
Yeah. And our colleges are very completely different in that regard and serve completely different populations. Nevertheless, it you realize, we’re all the identical. We’re all each college, public, personal, constitution, each stripe is within the enterprise of believing that youngsters are our future and should be stewarded and beloved on and guided. And, you realize, that is an actual elemental precept for me.
Can I ask, how outdated are your youngsters and do they go to the college you based?
Yeah, they do. And so they’re 9 and 11.
So did the college you based this Episcopal college, did it go into lockdown? Type of what what did you you all need to do consequently?
No, the faculties adjoining to Covenant did, however the others in Nashville didn’t. And so the factor I feel that was so unhappy that first day was the message that went out saying your youngsters haven’t but been notified. The employees is aware of, the academics know, everyone is aware of, all of the dad and mom know, everyone is aware of however the youngsters. And we will discuss it tomorrow. However we wished to provide the likelihood to speak about it first. So when you can think about a decide up line, anyone who’s who’s been by way of a college taking pictures of their neighborhood is aware of, you realize, the decide up line that first day is filled with tears.
Proper. And for individuals who aren’t accustomed to how huge ups and drop offs work as of late in colleges, there’s a line proper, the place like there are sort of they’re chaperoning your child the actually to the curb and also you decide them up. There’s not similar to wandering out of the constructing the place I feel when you have been a child within the nineties is what you grew up with. Yeah, it is hand handy move off.
That is proper, Audie. You should have youngsters.
Nicely, the juxtaposition of youngsters filled with vibrant pleasure and life and oldsters filled with grief and disappointment coming collectively. This assembly to me was very highly effective.
That means you are standing on the curb ready to get your child. However each mum or dad’s face is simply drawn.
And each mum or dad is each trainer and simply, you realize, holding again tears as is each trainer. However each baby continues to really feel very secure. And but everyone knows as dad and mom that no baby is secure any longer as a result of this tragedy is in our yard. It is come to Nashville, it is come to us, to our youngsters.
I suppose I wish to begin perhaps with Wagon Wheel, as a result of if individuals go to look you up, that could be the primary tune they find out about. And also you even write about it on this op ed. Inform me a bit of bit about the place you have been in your profession once you wrote this.
Certain. Nicely, Wagon Wheel is my most profitable tune.
Headed down South to the Land of the Pines. I am coming my method to North Carolina, staring up.
And it is a collaboration with Bob Dylan. I wrote it once I was about 17, going to high school up in New England in a prep college known as Exeter, and I used to be had simply discovered to play the banjo up there.
So rock me mama like a wagon wheel. Rock me mama, any method you are feeling. Hey mama rock me
You discuss the concept that your finest identified tune, Wagon Wheel, is usually blasting out of a truck, so to talk, that has an NRA sticker. And also you point out this particularly, and I need you to speak about why.
Once you make the sort of music that I make with a fiddle and a banjo and concord singing and a selected fashion of songwriting, you are participating in a neighborhood that could be completely different than your personal form of background, and it is not. Nicely, there is a prepare going by proper now. That is form of proof..
I keep in mind the prepare. Yeah.
The trains are at all times going by in Nashville.
Simply acquired to maintain it occurring the podcast. It will add a bit of little bit of coloration and speaks to what I am speaking about. You recognize, the trains are going by. The vehicles have NRA stickers. You recognize, once I was a child, there have been Accomplice flags in every single place. That is The South, y’all. It is completely different than the opposite components of the nation now, for higher or for worse. However it’s what it’s.
And once you’re round Nashville and you’ve got political conversations, wherever the individual falls on the spectrum, inevitably somebody makes use of that phrase, Nicely, that is The South.
Like, that is speculated to cowl quite a lot of issues.
Yeah. And whether or not it is speculated to be that method or, you realize, I feel we’re in a state of appreciable progress down south, however the vestiges stay, and so they’re essential to speak about on this regard, as a result of one of many vestiges is gun tradition, and it is largely thought of just like the insurgent flag up to now, simply one thing that exists right here. Take care of it, y’all. When actually, we now have at all times had the ability to drop the insurgent flag. There’s one vestige that has been challenged successfully.
And effected change in a method, or at the very least elevate the sort of societal stakes participating in sure language.
Completely. And so I see the change in gun tradition is rather like one other step in direction of The South’s evolution.
To my thoughts, nation, Americana, these genres so carefully align with their audiences. It’s extremely very like hip-hop, like individuals in hip-hop discuss concerning the tradition and their ties to the music, and the music ties to fairly actually the id of the individuals listening. And nation feels very a lot the identical method. However consequently, it has quite a lot of like guidelines. You recognize, there is a couple traces you they individuals do not such as you to step out of. Are you able to discuss how that performs out in fashionable nation?
Certain. Nicely, in the present day’s nation singer won’t come from The South and is school educated. So that they are in has already modified the stereotype of who sings nation music. You recognize, it is it is not coal miners anymore. The coal miner’s daughter like all of us love Loretta, however that is not who’s on primary proper now. In order that a part of it has modified lots. However what hasn’t modified a lot are the attitudes of the viewers.
Which to be clear. The nation music viewers is also wealthier and are resolution makers and our usually managers, there’s been form of like quite a lot of analysis into many people who find themselves within the viewers, and the viewers most likely seems a bit of completely different than individuals count on as effectively.
Nicely, I did not know to enter this, however however I am excited that we’re, Audie, as a result of, you realize, nation music actually particularly, and to make clear, modern nation music on the radio is an actual secure area for us to not discuss political divisiveness and never discuss issues of of substance. However as a substitute we’re all form of studying the Pulp Fiction collectively. And it is it is
Which is why it is in style, proper? I imply, in the course of the pandemic, I heard the expansion of listening to the music or streaming perhaps was up 15%. It was increased than some other style.
Folks welcome that secure area.
Journey story. It is you realize, it is very a lot tales, intergenerational household tales. That is the sort of stuff that goes primary is the tune about grandpa and what man he was and the way if we could possibly be a bit of bit extra like him, then the world can be a greater place. So this form of, you realize, hallmark sort of these beliefs which are tossed round won’t be that practical for in the present day’s actuality of, you realize, I labored I am a part of a world financial system working two jobs. And, you realize, I am hoping my youngsters are going to go get out of state tuition or no matter. And but we nation music actually offers in nostalgia. And that nostalgia is a an essential antidote to all the ache that one can witness within the click on of a mouse.
Proper. So how does gun. Tradition work together with that nostalgia, storytelling, since you’re saying in a method that that is constructed into the music, too.
Johnny Money singing I Shot a Man in Reno to Watch Him Die. Hank Jr Singing about. Yeah, I would wish to spit some seaside nut in that dude’s eye and shoot him with my outdated 45 as a result of a rustic boy can survive. This can be a method to for nation music to retain authority in a altering world. And guns–
However do you hear it within the fashionable music? Are there? You do not have to pick any artist. However do individuals nonetheless discuss that?
No, Audie. And that is the factor. We do not discuss weapons. If we do, it is a tune about I took my boy attempting to find the primary time. It is once more, dealing within the nostalgia. What it is not saying is I’ve acquired an AR-15 in my assortment. However the actuality is that many, many listeners do. And but it is a secure area the place they don’t seem to be confronted by the music to a altering actuality. As an alternative, they’re allowed to say, I taught my baby learn how to, you realize, I imply, once I was a child within the eighties, like I went chook hunt with Dad, I discovered learn how to fireplace a weapon. I discovered learn how to clear a weapon. These items are essential to the ways in which gun tradition is usually a constructive, however the secure area is that we’re not speaking about what it means in in the present day’s America. As an alternative, we’re just about hanging in yesterday’s.
So what’s it like for artists equivalent to your self to lift this concern?
Folks hold saying, thanks for being courageous. And I am like. You recognize who’s courageous is the child that pulled the fireplace alarm, you realize, within the hallway beneath gunfire in our city in a college, a child that was a 3rd grader. Now, that is courageous. All I am doing is simply I am a singer and I will sing concerning the stuff that is actual. I am a author, and I will inform what I see.
I do not wish to learn an excessive amount of into the zoom, however I. Are you getting emotional speaking about that?
Oh, yeah. I imply, I have been I have been crying for 2 weeks, ya’ll, prefer it’s… When this involves your city and so they bury the identical age child as yours. After which after which, like, whereas the graves are nonetheless recent, the information cycle strikes on to Stormy Daniels, and that is the truth. It is like, Good God, the place can we dwell? What can we not care about youngsters in any respect? It is simply over. So that is my method of claiming it is not over and it will not be over till these deaths, these three deaths of American youngsters gunned down within the third grade, till they imply one thing, that is when it’s going to be over.
Extra with Ketch Secor in only a second.
You might be demanding a brand new sort of motion come out of the south. And that it partially be led by people who find themselves cultural figures as effectively, not simply politicians, individuals equivalent to your self. Why do you suppose it might make a distinction?
Nicely, I feel that Nashville stands uniquely poised to steer a response to the college taking pictures epidemic.
However why do you suppose that? Proper? We simply watched the Tennessee State Home expel two members as a result of that they had a protest associated to gun coverage. Expel, not censure, not reprimand. Attempt to kick them out. So what what to your thoughts leads you to suppose that?
Nicely, Nashville, although the state legislature is what it’s, Nashville is a really progressive metropolis. And I am not saying that Tennessee goes to paved the way. I am saying Nashville.
Yeah, however is not that the powerful half? If in all these states and it is not simply Tennessee, you’ve got acquired these blue cities, these little blue dots in a sea of purple, and by purple I imply very conservative, very pro-gun, pro-Second Modification legislatures. This seems like an uphill battle. What you are calling for.
And I do know it is price it. I do not wish to as a result of everyone knows it is price it. However I need I wish to perceive why you suppose nation musicians are in any method uniquely positioned to have this dialog.
Nicely, and I wish to I recognize you difficult this Audie. Very first thing I wish to say is that altering segregation was an uphill battle in Tennessee. And and when Nashville within the early Sixties, within the late Nineteen Fifties stated its first foot ahead, this was the proving floor, different components of the South have been too unsafe. However individuals gathered in Nashville, a metropolis of schools, a metropolis of progressive thought within the South to have interaction in nonviolent civil disobedience. That is the place John Lewis got here. That is the place the Freedom Riders first cease was.
Their trainings, proper, with James Lawson and at Vanderbilt.
All of that coaching at Fisk and Vanderbilt occurred proper right here in Nashville, Tennessee. That exhibits our capacity as a as a neighborhood to exist outdoors of the state. Now, similar to in that point, the state legislator stated, what are you speaking about? That is not going to occur in our state. We solid the deciding vote on on ladies’s suffrage. I imply, Tennessee has been a bellwether place in these two different cases of nice significance. That is the third. That is the a part of the demise knell of the outdated South, which goes to have to alter. You recognize, 50 years from now I feel we will be trying again at these couple of years because the deciding time for a assault weapons ban in the US.
Once more, I wish to carry it to the query about nation music artists, particularly mainstream ones who given what we all know concerning the music, primary, have been socially punished for activism by what we name Music Row, by music radio, by nation music radio specifically, which nonetheless has a really sort of robust grip in a method programmers do, and even latest historical past. Proper. When you consider the Dixie Chicks, and so on., their complete story is a narrative of being ostracized for his or her activism.
You recognize, for a man like me, I am not beholden to too many individuals in any respect, however I am not a mainstream. I am not on the Jumbotron, you realize, I am not on the awards present with the highest ten performers of the 12 months.
Do you want these individuals for the motion you are speaking about?
They’ve a very far attain and the ability to speed up an inevitable motion to alter this for our youngsters. And I am asking them by way of this piece and likewise head to head in my neighborhood, by way of conversations of textual content. You recognize, I’ve reached out to so many singers up to now two weeks.
And what sort of textual content you ship.
Hey, I am simply reaching out to all my Nashville music neighborhood within the wake of the taking pictures and sharing this story that I wrote that got here out in the present day in The Occasions. Should you get a sec, please have a look.
What’s been essentially the most constructive response? What’s been essentially the most irritating one?
Essentially the most irritating one is silence. I say within the op ed piece that I feel silence is complicity. I went into the studio and I and I recorded a brand new tune on the topic. Because the taking pictures, which is barely two weeks in the past there have been so some ways to be engaged with this horrible story, and it is highly effective resolution.
I imply, the explanation why I am asking is as a result of your op ed stated one thing fairly particular, proper? That there are artists who’re drained at being on the sort of mercy of the whims of fearmongers, you stated, and that they are prepared to talk to an impressionable viewers. And since different genres, like we talked about hip hop earlier or pop, they do wade into societal points. They are often confrontational about politics. It is not like there is not a mannequin on the market. So I suppose what would it not take, do you suppose, for individuals in your business? To begin to do one thing related, which is which is, in impact, what you are calling for.
It’s starting and it is, I feel, in its infancy, but it surely’s already began.
And so it is about fanning the flames and constructing an enormous bonfire out of what is already crackling kindling. For instance, we have a profit live performance right here in Nashville that helps Covenant Faculty. And once you take a look at the the roster, who’s on the marquee, it is not the same old Americana people who at all times say, you realize, we stand with youngsters, we arise in opposition to gun violence. As an alternative, it is primary chart toppers. They’re there. They’ve put their hat into the ring.
However is it as a result of it is is it going to be a secure area from politics? If it is a second of a memorial, is that what makes it okay for an enormous artist to be there? Proper. As a result of no person’s going to stand up and say we should always have gun management.
There’s nothing however up right here as a result of we we now have began on the very baseline the place music popping out of Nashville on the radio says nothing about violence in opposition to youngsters in our colleges or about the necessity to rethink the forms of weaponry that’s related to the Second Modification. Kelsea Ballerini talked about it on an award present. These are the sorts of issues that when any person takes one step and the motion can shortly observe it, then the subsequent step is not as onerous to make. And what I am asking for is that subsequent step. You recognize, I’ve gotten quite a lot of suggestions from my viewers. And like I say in an op ed piece, you realize, I see the NRA sticker on the again of lot of vehicles blaring in my tunes. So, you realize, and we’re out on the highway with Hank Jr. this summer season. So, I imply, I am I am used to enjoying to an viewers that’s our nation folks. However I really like my nation folks viewers. And I and I need to have the ability to be actual with them. I can transfer freely in each of the areas that the 2 huge silos within the nation. Like, I’d go to work in a single silo and are available residence and the opposite one. And I am good with that as a result of I really like these individuals.
What’s your message to these artists who’re simply nonetheless very reluctant?
Nation music has an awesome future in these occasions to swing out previous the fences which have corralled it in so tightly. That I consider on this style. And I consider that it has the ability to hold that reality. You recognize, it is very a lot rooted in a gospel custom of of the lamentation, the calling out to the nice spirits. Assist us, Lord. We’re simply your youngsters. We do not know shit. We’re we’re dying down right here. Assist!
Are you able to discuss concerning the tune that you’ve got written out of this second?
New materials? You recognize, typically, similar to I am in a songwriting temper right here, I am in a a second in time with quite a lot of completely different alternatives as a author to have interaction on this, whether or not it is, you realize, writing the proper caption for {a photograph} on Instagram or writing an op ed piece for The New York Occasions or being on this podcast with you, Audie. There’s so some ways to decide on my phrases proper now and attempt to have them be resonant for the ache that we’re feeling in Nashville, Tennessee and across the nation as a result of we’re simply so drained, dad and mom, that our youngsters should not secure of their colleges. What which means for me as a songwriter is that I even have the prospect to write down new music about this and to place my cash the place my mouth is. So I acquired a brand new tune that is popping out known as Louder Than Weapons. That is yeah, I simply recorded it two days in the past.
Give me a way of the tune or lyrics.
Nicely, gosh, I really feel like I should not even introduced it up as a result of it is so…anytime you get a you realize, persons are cagey about their new stuff!
You are coping with a dude that wept by way of the entire songwriting course of. Let me sing it for you.
Ketch Secor is the daddy of two youngsters in Nashville, Tennessee. He is additionally a singer, songwriter and founding member of the band Previous Crow Drugs Present.
Now The Project is a manufacturing of CNN Audio. Our producers are Madeleine Thompson,Jennifer Lai, Lori Galarreta, Carla Javier, and Dan Bloom. Our affiliate producers are Isoke Samuel and Allison Park. Our senior producers are Matt Martinez and Haley Thomas. Dan Dzula is our technical director. Steve Lickteig is our government producer. Particular because of Katie Hinman. I am Audie Cornish and thanks for listening.
Sending that one out to Louisville in the present day.
Ketch, thanks a lot for sharing that with us.
Yeah, we acquired. We acquired to. We acquired to do it, y’all.