This text is a part of Hyperallergic’s 2024 Pride Month series, that includes interviews with art-world queer and trans elders all through June.
In 1989, photographer Lola Flash sat on the opposite aspect of the lens for what would turn into one of many decade’s most iconic pictures. Flash, who makes use of she/they pronouns, kisses fellow artist Julie Tolentino in a poster of three queer {couples} and the phrase “Kissing Doesn’t Kill: Greed and Indifference Do,” a marketing campaign launched by AIDS artist-activist collective Gran Fury. The picture was distributed in a mass-mailing and plastered on buses and billboards.
Flash was already deeply concerned within the AIDS activism motion by her work with ACT UP, and whereas the photographer has served as a pillar of their group for the reason that 1980’s, they’ve solely gained acceptance into the museum and gallery world in recent times. This was intentional, they advised Hyperallergic over the cellphone. Under is a condensed model of a dialog that delved into the parental pleasure of changing into a mentor, discovering love, and dawning an area helmet to consider ancestors.
Hyperallergic: Are you able to discuss your entrance into the New York Metropolis artwork world? Did you are feeling accepted there, and the way has your feeling of acceptance modified all through the a long time?
Lola Flash: I bought to town within the mid-’80s. I met a mural artist named Arnie Charnick, who did quite a lot of murals within the East Village. I had gone to artwork faculty and thought museums and galleries had been the best way to go, however Arnie was actually in opposition to that. Since he had murals throughout, he thought he didn’t must be in galleries, and it was earlier than graffiti or related public artwork was proven in museums.
I wished to be like him, so I didn’t wish to present my work in museums. I felt that museums had been about white partitions, White individuals on the partitions, and White audiences. It wasn’t interesting to me and it didn’t seem to be a spot I belonged. So for years, I didn’t need acceptance from the artwork world. I wished the alternative, to be trustworthy. In some methods, I wished to be like a kind of artists who dies and their paintings is discovered underneath the mattress. It wasn’t about notoriety or fame or me: it was about creating an archive of my expensive group.
It wasn’t till I turned 60 that I made a decision I wished to make it occur for myself within the artwork world. I had seen a Kerry James Marshall present at The Met, and it modified my ideas on displaying my work. The viewers was nonetheless principally White, however there have been some Black individuals there, too. These areas have gotten higher. Individuals had been actually wanting on the work, and one woman was crying.
It made me suppose, “Perhaps the world is able to see my work.” I reached out to MoMA and stated, “It’s good to give me a studio go to”. That was the start of my life now. As soon as MoMA buys your work, the Whitney needs to purchase it, too. It hasn’t been a landfall, however there’s undoubtedly been a change in the best way individuals greet me and settle for me.
H: Have you ever been in a position to domesticate relationships with youthful artists who at the moment are seeing your work?
LF: Sure. It’s one of many actually lovely issues that I by no means thought would occur to me. I’m the newly elected president of the board at Queer Arts. I’m tremendous proud to be part of it, and one in all our most stellar packages is our queer mentorship program. The founder Ira Sachs was very conscious that our era, and generations to return, misplaced quite a lot of mentors due to AIDS, he created this group to fill that area.
Felli Maynard is one in all my mentees. They’re a tremendous artist. They convey as a lot to the desk as I do, and it’s been a ravishing relationship that I can’t think about dwelling with out. I’m so happy with them, similar to a dad or mum can be. I’ve had younger individuals come to me with tears of their eyes thanking me for making work that lets them see themselves. I actually cherish every of these moments.
H: Did you will have mentors your self? Who do you see as your friends now?
LF: As for friends, Zanele Muholi is on the high of my checklist. As for mentors and different friends, the Black photographer Anthony Barboza was one of many first individuals I realized about after I was in school. Then Gordon Parks, Carrie Mae Weems, Pamela Sneed, Michelle Agins, Naima Inexperienced, Amy Sherald, Simone Leigh, Ajamu X, and lots of extra. And Joan E. Biron (JEB) — we’re collectively in a group show. We’ve a lot enjoyable. We’ve been doing the identical factor — specializing in the lesbian group — however in numerous components of the world.
The present is unimaginable as a result of, to begin with, it reveals that lesbians have been right here for a very long time and are available all styles and sizes in our bodies which are otherwise abled. We’ve documented these individuals, and I believe that’s actually essential. Once I see queer well-known stars, I generally surprise if they give thought to all of the pioneers like ourselves who made it doable for them to be out and proud. Once I was a younger lesbian within the ’80s, so lots of my pals had been nonetheless within the closet.
It’s so essential for ladies, and particularly Black ladies and queer ladies, to proceed pushing the following era ahead due to the patriarchy. Queer males photographers have been displaying for the reason that ’70s and ’80s, however so far as I can see, they haven’t at all times stated, “Come on over.” However I see that girls are doing that.
I’ve quite a lot of issues to be pleased about. My household has at all times been happy with me and so they’re joyful that I’m joyful as a lesbian. They’ve by no means advised me to develop my hair lengthy like the remainder of my cousins. They’ve at all times been supportive. It’s the explanation I’m in a position to proceed doing this work, even when it isn’t obtained in a means that I like; I’ve quite a lot of household and pals that I can fall again on after I simply want like a bit of push to get again up and preserve doing my factor.
H: What was it prefer to create your SALT and LEGENDS collection?
LF: Legends is a tribute to older queer people in our group. Some are literally on view now at Howl! Gallery. The journey has been very cathartic. I’ve been considering of individuals like myself who didn’t have queer position fashions, so I began photographing them. We didn’t have any of the issues younger individuals have now, like PREP commercials and guys kissing on TV. It’s humorous as a result of virtually everyone in that collection doesn’t suppose they’re a legend.
It continues SALT, which is devoted to my mother and my grandma as a result of I by no means actually took correct lovely pictures of them with my 4×5 digicam. You possibly can’t go backward and may solely go ahead, so I’m taking a look at ladies who’re over 70. Generally I sit on the bus and suppose to myself, “I ponder what that lady did.” I do know I certainly have some tales to inform.
I take into consideration the truth that these ladies, who had been thought-about so very important once they had been younger, turned 25 or 30 and kind of bought thrown out to pasture. I wished to remind them of their magnificence. When somebody is available in entrance of my digicam, they know that I believe they’re lovely. For 2 hours of their day, they will notice their magnificence and undertaking it. I’m going to start out it again up once more this summer time.
For us Black individuals and queer individuals, notably Black individuals, it’s as if we have now a goal on our again. It’s rather a lot to be a Black particular person in America and to nonetheless be alive and have a way of pleasure, and it’s one thing one can solely try this if they’ve their group round them. There’s an actual lack of older Black queer mentors in my life, so if anybody’s on the market studying, I could possibly be your mentee for a bit of bit.
H: What does Pleasure Month imply to you?
LF: It’s the month after I actually really feel complete. It makes me fantasize about how completely different my life can be if queers had been the bulk.
It offers me the sensation of what it may be if the world was homosexual reasonably than straight. Are you able to think about this being the norm? It will simply be so wonderful to have the ability to simply stroll round holding palms together with your girlfriend wherever you wish to, kissing wherever you wish to kiss.
H: Do you will have a favourite {photograph}?
LF: Most likely the {photograph} of me and Julie from the Kissing Doesn’t Kill marketing campaign. It’s such an iconic picture now, however we didn’t notice that in 1989 once we modeled for it. Generally it truthfully doesn’t really feel like me, as a result of we’re such symbols. But it surely does make me joyful that they selected us. We had been so engrossed in ACT UP. We’re nonetheless pals; Julie’s one my relations now. I even have an image of my nice grandfather that’s additionally fairly wonderful. He’s with Booker T. Washington and Madame C. J. Walker.
H: What are you engaged on now?
LF: I at all times work on quite a lot of issues on the identical time, however I’m persevering with my Afrofuturism collection Syzygy. I began the collection in Woodstock, and since there aren’t quite a lot of Black individuals there, I spotted that I wanted to be the protagonist. It’s been enjoyable to be taught from my pals who’re efficiency artists and take into consideration my ancestors.
It’s a narrative I weave after I’m enthusiastic about the previous, however I’m additionally enthusiastic about the current. I’m sporting a jail uniform, enthusiastic about all of the individuals who appear to be me who’re incarcerated. Then the helmet speaks to the long run. I’ve additionally been doing quite a lot of grant writing, as a result of I actually wish to go to Senegal to only actually retrace my ancestors’ footsteps. I believe it’s going to assist add a way of authenticity to the collection.
In some ways, the collection incorporates the entire themes I’ve labored on thus far — racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, White supremacy, and so on. You possibly can examine artwork and have your notes and analysis, however on the finish of the day, there’s some type of magic that slips in. Perhaps it’s the ancestors. I’m sitting on their shoulders huge time.
I suppose I’d additionally prefer to put on the market that I’m engaged now to Marcia Griffiths. I hated the entire thought of us changing into like straight individuals and getting married. However if you discover your one, you wish to make it everlasting. I at all times inform the younger individuals, “By no means say by no means.”
H: Who proposed?
LF: I did. I had a crush on her within the ’90s after I was in London, then she got here to my present there in 2019. I assumed, “Oh, right here’s that woman I had a crush on.” That’s the way it started. It’s type of candy.
I simply really feel so blessed to have had this lengthy life. I see my pals coping with sicknesses, and I’m nonetheless fairly wholesome. It’s a blessing. While you get to my age, you’ll suppose, “Oh, that’s what Lola was speaking about.” Don’t rush it as a result of it’s undoubtedly not one thing you wish to be enthusiastic about till you get to that age. It’s a wasted effort. If I’ve one message for the younger people on the market, it’s to reside within the current. Clearly, put together for the long run, however don’t go loopy about it.